Discussions at the committee hearings were heated over the immigration issues and solutions.
Congressional hearings often feature intense debate, pointing to differences between Democrats and Republicans, but lawmakers usually find common grounds for at least compromise and moving forward with the legislative process.
That was not the case at the House Oversight and Accountability Committee hearing Wednesday. It featured four mayors of the country’s largest self-proclaimed sanctuary city.
The four included New York Mayor Eric Adams, Denver Mayor Mike Johnston, Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson and Boston Mayor Michelle Wu. David Bier, director of Cato Institute immigration studies, was also a witness and appeared on behalf of the Democrats.
A Republican, led by panel chair James Kommer (R-KY.), has repeatedly portrayed the mayor as violating federal law by refusing to work with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) that seeks to remove illegal immigrants from jurisdiction.
A Democrat led by member Congressman Jerry Connolly (D-Va.) said illegal immigrants are less crimeful than American citizens and praise mayors of Denver, Chicago and Boston.
Understanding on both sides of the most fundamental issues has been extended to what constitutes true cooperation between federal, state and local law enforcement agencies.
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When House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) questioned Johnston in Denver, the two men fought back and forth whether Denver officials had properly coordinated with Ice Agents trying to arrest Abraham Gonzalez.
Gonzalez is a allegedly a Venezuelan gang member who was arrested and released by US border authorities in 2023, then charged with multiple felony charges and was arrested and released by Denver’s local government.
“What kind of realization did you turn to ice?” Jordan asked Johnston. Johnston said he doesn’t know about a particular time. “For an hour, you gave them an hour notice,” replied Jordan.
The Ohio Republican then exhibited for a hearing of records from the Denver Sheriff’s Office that showed Gonzalez being released “on the streets” after nearly a year of detention.
Johnston said ICE officials had sufficient notice as six agents appeared at the Denver County Jail. Jordan released him in the facility’s parking lot, noting that local officials had not released Gonzalez to ice custody in prison.
“I reviewed the video, I saw it and spoke to the sheriff last night… there were six officers with multiple tasers,” Johnston replied.
When Jordan asked why Gonzalez was not released to an ice officer inside the prison, Johnston stated that local officials had made more than 1,200 such releases and that Gonzalez’s situation was the first such incident.
Boston Mayor Michelle Wu will testify before the Surveillance and Government Reform Committee on Capitol Hill on March 5, 2025.Madalina Vasiliu/The Epoch Times
“That’s a simple question. You can release him in the parking lot, inform the ice for an hour, then send six police officers to arrest this man. Why not?” Jordan asked.
The mayor said the city of Denver ordinance provides for procedures local officials will follow to deal with the ice.
“Do you know why you don’t? You’re a sanctuary city,” Jordan retorted.
A similar example was cited by other GOP committee members. Democrats responded repeatedly, citing the academic research they had mentioned.
Denver Mayor Mike Johnston will testify before the Committee on Surveillance and Government Reform at Capitol Hill on March 5, 2025.Madalina Vasiliu/The Epoch Times
In 1980, the survey found that immigrants were 6.2% of the US population, with a per capita crime rate of 5,900 per 100,000 people. 42 years later, 13.9% had more than doubled the number of immigrants, but the per capita crime rate fell to 2,335 per 100,000 people.
Democrats also cited similar research from the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy and the Libertarian Cato Institute.
Rep. Glenn Grossman (R-Wis.) refuted the Democratic crime study, saying, “No one is going to track it, so we don’t know how many illegal immigrants in this country are committing crimes.”
Grossman then asked the four mayors if they thought that individuals who crossed the border in the United States and illegally stayed here should be detained and returned to their home country.
Adams agreed to Grossman, but the other three mayors became ambiguous. “We serve those seeking asylum,” Johnston said. Chicago’s Johnson cited his support for the comprehensive immigration reform proposal introduced in the Senate last year, but refused to specifically address Grossman’s question.
Wu responded by saying he believes that the nation should have strong borders and an efficient immigration system, but he qualifies the response by saying that deportation programs are harmful.
Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.) confirmed with mayors that each city is a sanctuary city that restricts the way local law enforcement officials interact with federal immigration personnel.
Biggs then rejected information about the status of individual immigrants to US officials under three federal laws, pointing out that it was illegal, in order to prevent the service of ice suppressors who have illegal immigrants, or to prevent access to evidence of the case. Yet all four city sanctuary city ordinances hamper such cooperation.
“No one of you, none of your agencies within your local government, communicates (passes them to the ice) anyone with an ice remover,” Biggs said. “You have to start to realize what your crime negligence is on top of that… Everyone is exposed to crime negligence here.”
None of the mayor responded to Biggs’ comments.
