Josh Funk from AP Transportation Writer
Military helicopter traffic through Washington has been a long-standing concern among aviators operating around the airport, where Army helicopters and commercial airlines collided this year, killing 67 people, federal agents heard in testimony Thursday.
This is the second testimony in three days of witness testimony and public investigation by the National Road Safety Commission on a January air crash fall on the Potomac River.
The board focused on air traffic control and on Thursday heard that it is common for pilots to use visual separation — essentially dependent on vision — just as Army Black Hawk pilots agreed to do a crash night. FAA officials also said the controllers rely heavily on pilots using visual separation as a way to manage complex airspace using so many helicopters flying around Washington, DC
However, Medevac operator Metro Airlines official Rick Dressler said it would be difficult to identify other aircraft in the night sky around Ronald Reagan National Airport, especially as Army Choppers have done on a daily basis.
Dressler said he and other civilian helicopter pilots in the area have long been concerned about Army and Air Force helicopters flying around Reagan Airport.
“I don’t like to say this, I’ll say it again on the record,” said Dressler, a former Army aviator and retired air officer. “I’m talking there for the group. We’re all very uncomfortable when these two units are working.”
Clark Allen, a Washington area FAA training manager who worked at the Towers of Reagan National Airport, said visual separation is commonplace daily between helicopter pilots and commercial traffic.
The Department of Defense introduced the Army to questions about testimony on Thursday.
The Air Force also did not immediately answer questions about Dressler’s comments.
The American Airlines jet arrives from Wichita, Kansas, carrying, among other things, a group of elite young figure skaters, parents and coaches, and four Union Steam Fitters from the Washington area.
The crash, the country’s most fatal plane crash fall since November 2001, was the first of this year’s crash crash and melee errors, and despite statistics still showing flights, it is still wary of authorities and travelers.
It is too early for the board to pinpoint exactly what caused the crash. The board’s final report will not be released until next year.
The Black Hawk’s final moments
As part of the board’s investigation, communications boarded at the moment of the helicopter before the collision was announced.
The Black Hawk crew was in communication with the airport’s control tower, but the helicopter pilots had not fully listened to the controller’s instructions.
The Black Hawk pilot said that American Airlines airliners were in sight twice in the tower just minutes before the crash, maintaining proper separation. However, when the controller instructed the pilot to “pass behind” the jet, the crew didn’t listen to the instructions as the Black Hawk’s microphone key was pressed at that moment.
Just before the collision, an instructor pilot on a helicopter asked the pilot in control to come to the left. However, it was not clear whether the pilot had time to pilot the helicopter before the crash.
“He’s leaving for me for a moment,” the instructor said.
The pilot replied, “That’s true.”
“Become completely transparent”
NTSB Chairman Jennifer Homendi reminded FAA and Army witnesses that they are covered by whistleblower protections and that anything they say should not be punished.
However, she continued to worry about whether the witness was free to speak as she ordered seat arrangements after she noticed the centre of the FAA employee on the supervisor’s elbow during testimony, urging the person to stop talking to him.
“We want people to feel completely transparent and safe to offer us answers. So we’re going to switch panelists. I’m not going to hold back on that,” Homendi said.
Jennifer Homendy, chairman of the National Traffic Safety Board, will be taking the NTSB fact-finding hearing on a DCA airborne crash on Wednesday, July 30, 2025, at the National Traffic Safety Board Office in Washington. (AP Photo/Rod Lamkey, Jr.)
On the left, Ashley Stoval was joined by her mother, Christina Stoval, on the right. She talks about her husband, Mikey Stoval. She is hanging on a US Airlines 5342 flight in a collision with a US military helicopter during a fact search for NTSB on a DCA central collision crash on a US Airlines 5342 flight hanging on July 30th on a DCA’s central collision crash. (AP Photo/Rod Lamkey, Jr.)
Jennifer Homendy, chairman of the National Traffic Safety Board, will be taking the NTSB fact-finding hearing on a DCA airborne crash on Wednesday, July 30, 2025, at the National Traffic Safety Board Office in Washington. (AP Photo/Rod Lamkey, Jr.)
Second from the right, Gwen Duggins, whose daughter Kia Duggins died on a flight of American Airlines 5342 in a collision with a US military helicopter, shed tears in July with a board board during an NTSB accident during an NTSB fact-finding hearing during a DCA crash. (AP Photo/Rod Lamkey, Jr.)
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Jennifer Homendy, chairman of the National Traffic Safety Board, will be taking the NTSB fact-finding hearing on a DCA airborne crash on Wednesday, July 30, 2025, at the National Traffic Safety Board Office in Washington. (AP Photo/Rod Lamkey, Jr.)
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“Modify”
On the first day of Wednesday’s hearing, investigators highlighted a warning about helicopter traffic that the Federal Aviation Administration received several years before the tragedy that crossed the Potomac River.
Homedy urged the FAA to “fix it” at the end of the fiery exchange when highlighting a warning that it ignored several years ago. She also suggested that the Army adopt a formal policy and make it clear that helicopter pilots should not fly under the landing aircraft.
“All the signs were a safety risk and the tower was telling you that,” Homendi said.
However, there were 21 bureaucratic stairs, the staircase that the tower had to follow to make changes, and after the accident, the FAA moved the manager out of the tower, rather than admitting that he was warned.
“What you did is transfer people rather than taking ownership to the fact that everyone at the Tower’s FAA said there was a problem,” Homundy said. “But you’re pointing out, “Wellp, our bureaucratic process. Someone should have nurtured it in another symposium.” Are you kidding me?
The FAA did not add warnings to the helicopter chart, officials say
Homedy said the FAA Working Group raised concerns about traffic and crash risks for all helicopters around Ronald Reagan National Airport in 2022, but the FAA declined to add warnings to the helicopter chart urging pilots to be warned when the runway is in use.
“This is exactly what happened to be a warning note,” she said.
Videos and animations released on the first day of the minutes showed the helicopter flying above the altitude limit of 200 feet (61 meters) before colliding with the plane.
Investigators said Wednesday’s flight data recorder showed that helicopters were actually 80 feet to 100 feet (24-30 meters) higher than the barometric altimeters on which the pilot relies. Therefore, the NTSB conducted tests on three other helicopters from the same unit flying in the same area and found similar inconsistencies on the altimeter.
Dan Cooper and Sikorsky Helicopters said that when the Black Hawk helicopters involved in the crash were designed in the 1970s, they used the altimeter style, which was common at the time. The new helicopter has a new air data computer that helps provide more accurate altitude measurements.
Army officials said a 70-100-foot (21-30 meters) discrepancy between Black Hawk altimeters is within acceptable range, as pilots are expected to maintain altitude of plus or minus 100 feet.
Concerns about distance between planes and helicopters
A greater concern is that the FAA has approved routes around Reagan Airport, including such a small separation distance between helicopters and planes.
“The fact that we have less than 500 feet of separation is a concern for me,” said Scott Rosengren, the chief engineer at the office that manages the Army’s utility helicopters.
Two minutes before the collision, one air traffic controller had directed airport traffic and helicopters to local airport traffic and helicopters.
Killen Lewis’s chief warrant officer told the board he would not find 80-100 feet of inconsistency between different altimeters on the helicopter. Under 500 feet (152 meters), Lewis said he would check both instruments and refer to them.
Associated Press writers David Klepper, Mike Katarini, Leah Asklenam, Ben Finley and Rio Yamato contributed to the story.
Original issue: July 31, 2025 9:27am EDT
